Kate ([info]kate_nepveu) wrote,
@ 2005-10-10 12:03:00
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Current music:Jackie Greene, "Honey I Been Thinking About You"
Entry tags:manga, manga analysis, saiyuki

Saiyuki commentary: art (volume 8)

I've got the day off, how about some Saiyuki art commentary? No theme this time, just a mis-mash of things that caught my eye.

Spoilers for volume 8 of Saiyuki, and possibly volume 9 as well; please don't spoil me for Reload. About 250 KB of images behind the cut.

As always, images are from the scanlations; the ones on the page have been scaled down and saved at 50% quality. Click on the image for original size and quality (except in one case noted below). Page citations are in volume.chapter.page (going by the Tokyopop editions).

On the use of beer cans as ashtrays

The very first page of the volume, 8.43.9, caught my eye through its strongly triangular layout:

8.43.9 scaled

The page kind of expands as it progresses, as the meaning of Gojyo's leaving sinks in. Also of note—besides the beer can used as an ashtray—is Hakkai's face, which is darker and more highly contrasted (if that's an actual descriptive term) than usual.

Compare 8.47.131, when they're reunited (Tokyopop: "What indeed. Didn't I warn you that using cans as ashtrays will earn you retribution?" " . . . Right. Sorry."):

8.47.131 scaled

A non-shadowed Hakkai face; also, the layout emphasizes that there's two people there, being divided in two (down the middle) and then two again (across the left side). Through its framing of the characters, it also shows Hakkai forgiving Gojyo without words; the right-hand panel depicts submission (Gojyo sitting with his head bowed and shoulders hunched, while Hakkai stands above him and looks away), while the left depicts equality (the two looking at each other, framed to show precisely the same portions of their bodies).

Closeups and body language

While I'm talking about framing characters and body language, I should probably mention the second-to-last page of the volume, 8.49.191 (the sound effect in panel 2 is translated by Tokyopop as "slip"; the text is "Damn. Just . . . " "Please?"):

8.49.191 scaled

I like the way this switches between closeups and shots from further away. Panels one and two collectively show Gojyo's exhaustion, by focusing first on his sigh and then his full-body sinking down to the floor. The closeup on Gojyo's hands across his face in panel three is heartbreaking, but the ceiling-height shot in panel four is even more so, because now Sanzo's back in the frame and they're so small and alone and at the ends of their ropes.

(Waah. I'm tempted to start volume 9 right away just so I don't have to leave them like this.)

Tight closeups get used in a slightly different fashion to open this chapter, which starts on a left-hand page (8.49.157):

8.49.157 scaled

At first glance, this looked to me like it was using borderless panels in the wider shots of Gojyo, but of course it isn't. I think this goes back to rhythm: you need borders to structure the frightening monotony of the page. They also constrain not only what's shown, but what the viewer imagines; if the wide shots had been a borderless panel, then the viewer would automatically fill in the rest of Gojyo "behind" the lighter-flipping shots. Instead, the viewer wonders what's not being shown, and so turns the page to . . .

8.49.158 scaled

. . . an establishing wide shot of injury and dejection. (And skinniness. Man, they so need to eat more.)

On a happier body language note, the art for chapter 47 sums them all up well enough that I could've skipped the entire last post:

8.47.98-99

Aren't they cute? Skinny, but cute.

The use of chains in page layout

Gojyo's shakujou, including its chain, creates a really strong clear path through 8.49.162, part of the flashback in the last chapter:

8.49.162 scaled

I mean, markup is superfluous. Starting with the speech balloon in top right: the weapon's handle comes directly out of the balloon, leading left, and then the chain leads down to Kami-Sama's head. The dark edges of the beads over the sutra next grab the eye, and lead straight into the chain in the next panel. The chain heads across the panel towards the next speech balloons. The balloons overlap into the last panel, where that thin bit of Gojyo's hair draws the eye back towards his shocked face.

Striking, but I prefer an earlier layout that also uses the shakujou's chain, 8.46.88-89 (I didn't paste the two original pages into one image because it would be pretty large. Here's 88 and 89.):

8.46.88-89 scaled

The elements of the right-hand page are arranged in a clockwise curve, and lead perfectly into the curve of the shakujou's chain on the next page, completing the circle—pretty and all symbolic and stuff. (The whitespace in the middle of the right page helps define the curve, and also lines up with the shakujou's handle.)

I still can't draw curves in GIMP, so just pretend the red and blue lines below are curvy:

8.46.88-89 marked up

The layout also creates a visual pause on the left-hand page by having the strongest visual path, the thick foregrounded chain, stop at the top right corner, the middle of the page spread. The chains in the background and the weapon's handle eventually lead to the next panel, but not immediately, as befits the importance of the right-hand panel.

Dolls

We were talking about ominous dolls in Saiyuki?

8.49.179 scaled

Just, you know, in case anyone had missed it up until now. (8.49.179)

(One more art post, then a booklog entry and an attachement/dependence essay, and then I can finally read Reload!)

[ more Saiyuki art commentary ]



(17 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]telophase
2005-10-10 05:46 pm UTC (link)
...is Hakkai's face, which is darker and more highly contrasted (if that's an actual descriptive term) than usual.

These were originally color pages in the manga. His face is indeed darker and more contrasty, but probably not to quite the extent as it looks in the B&W. It would be really interesting to know what original colors were used - we know there's a lot of color symbolism used with the red hair and eyes, and she may or may not have done something with it in the color pages of the manga.

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[info]telophase
2005-10-10 06:04 pm UTC (link)
Reposted, hopefully with correct HTML.


The handle of the shakujo doesn't just lead into the page on the right - it unites the guys. Here it is extended. See how they're placed so that strong horizontals in their clothing connect to the handle - Sanzo's breastplate thingy, Goku's shoulder doohickeys and the volume of Hakkai's sleeve? They're also all standing with the proper hip tilted to continue the exact line and angle of the handle: the dark belts make a line that's also emphasized by the pooching-out of the fabric in Sanzo's and Goku's clothing.

There's also a very clear break in the random placement of the beads exactly where the handle goes.

If you wanted to get symbolic about it - they're all helping him defeat the illusion, as part of or as wielders of his weapon. refuses to think of the sordid spin that can be placed on that

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[info]kate_nepveu
2005-10-10 11:14 pm UTC (link)
Ooh, yes, good call on the handle, and yes, I admit sordid spins did cross my mind when I was typing.

Also, I shall now take a moment to pout about Tokyopop not giving us pretty color pages.

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[info]desdenova
2005-10-11 01:38 am UTC (link)
To be fair, it's not just Tokyopop. The colored bits don't usually get printed in the Japanese collections, either. For the most part, the colored bits only show up in the original serial publications. Which is sad.

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[info]kate_nepveu
2005-10-11 02:37 pm UTC (link)
It is--not only does the transition to b&w look weird, but they're so *pretty* in color . . .

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[info]crispypoohs
2005-10-10 06:29 pm UTC (link)
Wow... Your anaylsis of the whole panel layout thing is AMAZING... I don't ever notice these things -- manga just kind of flows for me, without me recognizing any rhyme or reason to how the panels are layed out... This is actually VERY interesting to see (especially the arangement of panels and subjects in the page with the chains... I wonder if the artist KNOWS she's doing that, or if it's just a subconcious thing)

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[info]kate_nepveu
2005-10-10 11:27 pm UTC (link)
Thanks! Glad you're finding it interesting. I learned a *lot* from reading other people's posts and put links to those posts in prior installments of this series, so if you'd like more of this sort of thing, check those out.

I am brand-new to manga, and I think that newness is making the analysis easier. Also, _Saiyuki_ is such rich fodder; I found very little interesting to say about the first volume of _Fullmetal Alchemist_, even though that art seemed perfectly good to my eye.

Thanks for commenting, I really appreciate hearing from people who read these.

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[info]desdenova
2005-10-11 02:00 am UTC (link)
Random disconnected thoughts:

The first half of Vol. 8 is one of my favorite bits so far in the series.

The opening page, with Hakkai staring down at the crumpled cigarette pack and ashtrayed beer can? Just about killed me when I read it for the first time. Still does, really.

For the longest time, I couldn't figure out *why* I found Hakkai so creepy in that part. I knew it must have something to do with the way he was being drawn, but I couldn't put my finger on it. And then I figured it out: 1. He smiles more than usual, and 2. In between page 8.43.9 and page 8.47.131, you see both his eyes exactly once (and that is in a little tiny insignificant panel tucked up in the corner of page 61). That, combined with all the inappropriate smiling, really conveys the impression of somebody who's this >< close to cracking up.

I am firmly of the belief that the argument between Sanzo and Hakkai in Chapter 43, right before the youkai attack, is the closest Sanzo has come to death in the whole series. Sanzo may be the only person in the world to have seen this look:



and lived!

Um, that's all I have to say for now.

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[info]desdenova
2005-10-11 03:10 am UTC (link)
I have no idea why that image is not displaying. Here is a link:

http://pics.livejournal.com/desdenova/pic/00017het/

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[info]kate_nepveu
2005-10-11 02:55 pm UTC (link)
He does stretch his mouth (I hestitate to call it smiling) more than usual, though I'm not entirely convinced of the significance of his non-shown eye; it's pretty rare for Minekura to draw the eye behind his monocle at all. I only caught five or six instances in a quick flip through vol. 7, which I had to hand, for instance.

The picture you link to reminds me a lot of the expression just before he took off his limiters: http://www.steelypips.org/images/saiyuki/7-39-90-scaled.jpg

Do you think Sanzo realizes how close he came?

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[info]catmaries
2005-10-18 01:05 am UTC (link)
Thanks to your commentary, I've really noticed how Minekura often portrays two characters facing different directions in panels. It's very interesting. It seems that Minekura's style is more cinematic that most (of course, many manga artists are cinematic but Minekura's work really goes for those dynamic shots)

Also, I too am in the camp that believes that our boys need to fatten up. They are too skinny. Is this a Japanese thing or what? I find this in many mangas - the male characters have no asses whatsoever. Especially in shonen mangas like Yugiou. No really...

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[info]kate_nepveu
2005-10-18 02:38 am UTC (link)
Hey, thanks--glad it's been a little helpful to you. Yes, I first noticed how much Minekura likes a two-panels-across, one-character-per-panel layout--which is very frequent in the early volumes--and from there it's not so far to noticing her general tendency to juxtapose two characters.

Weirdly, the anime of _Saiyuki_ has Sanzo with a huge butt, as [info]telophase's icon so eloquently shows: http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/33767206/1125668

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[info]catmaries
2005-10-18 10:40 pm UTC (link)
Yep, Reload Episode 23. I remember shouting "butt!" is shock as that scene unfolded...even now it surprises me. I suppose in my mind I keep blocking it out...

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[info]oyceter
2006-03-18 01:56 am UTC (link)
I can't believe I just read these! They're so awesome!

That first page of vol. 8 is one of my favorites in the series. Just... the focus on Gojyo's back (I like how the TokyoPop edition has "I'm sorry" in pretty small font to emphasize the emptiness and the white space), then Hakkai's face, then the empty pack of cigarettes and the beer can. And I love love love the page where Hakkai and Gojyo make up.

It's not specific to Minekura, but I'm perpetually amused by the repetition of panels for humor, particularly with dialogue and the last repetition being the "sound effect" of silence (shi~~~~~~~n), which may be my very favorite sound effect ever. It so nicely captures the set-up (beat) punchline of jokes and spaces it out, timing-wise.

I also didn't realize how much her art had changed until I reread vol. 1, in which the characters look decidedly wonky.

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[info]kate_nepveu
2006-03-18 02:04 am UTC (link)
Yes, the changes in the art are really remarkable (though I worry a bit that the jaws are going a bit to the other extreme, especially in the more recent _Gaiden_ chapters). The page layout is always good, it seems to me, but the characters are much better.

And yeah, Tokyopop seems to be doing a really nice job, at least judging by the scanlations.

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[info]chomiji
2007-02-23 07:17 pm UTC (link)

Thanks so much for taking the time to do this and the other articles in this series (more than a year ago now, I realize). I am new to manga in general (just started reading them with Samurai Deeper Kyo last fall) and Saiyuki in particular (just blasted through vol. 1-9 this past week, and have already started re-reading ...).

I've come across your other blog - the steelypips one - several times in Googling for book discussions, especially on Diana Wynne Jones. You do great stuff!

- Cho

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[info]kate_nepveu
2007-02-23 09:39 pm UTC (link)
Thanks so much, and glad to be of help!

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